<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>Everything In Between &#187; Polyamory</title>
	<atom:link href="http://maymay.net/blog/category/personal/romance-relationships/polyamory/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://maymay.net/blog</link>
	<description>The brutally honest, first-person account of Meitar Moscovitz's life.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7</generator>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
			<item>
		<title>Cat in a box</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2007/12/15/cat-in-a-box/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2007/12/15/cat-in-a-box/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 01:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Anger & Rage]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Bipolar Disorder & Moods]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Crosspost]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Depression & Melancholy]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maymay.net/blog/2007/12/15/cat-in-a-box/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My mind is in Schrödinger&#8217;s box.
Am I asking too much? Why can&#8217;t I just go to parties and have a good time?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mind is in Schrödinger&#8217;s box.</p>
<p>Am I asking too much? Why can&#8217;t I just go to parties and have a good time?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2007/12/15/cat-in-a-box/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Helen Fisher discusses love, proving the naturalness of polyamory</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/09/22/helen-fisher-discusses-love-proving-the-naturalness-of-polyamory/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/09/22/helen-fisher-discusses-love-proving-the-naturalness-of-polyamory/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Medications]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maymay.net/blog/archives/2006/09/22/helen-fisher-discusses-love-proving-the-naturalness-of-polyamory/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently discovered TEDTalks, a fantastic web site that shares the lectures and presentations at the Technology Entertainment and Design conference in Monterey, California. I just watched Helen Fisher&#8217;s talk, which the TED web site describes like this:
Helen Fisher is an anthropologist with Rutgers University, specializing in gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently discovered <a href="http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/">TEDTalks</a>, a fantastic web site that shares the lectures and presentations at the Technology Entertainment and Design conference in Monterey, California. I just watched Helen Fisher&#8217;s talk, which the TED web site describes like this:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=h_fisher&#038;flashEnabled=1"><p>Helen Fisher is an anthropologist with Rutgers University, specializing in gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. Her most recent book is &#8220;Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love.&#8221; In this wide-ranging talk, she outlines the bio-chemical foundations of love (and lust), and discusses the natural talents of women, and their new significance in the modern world. (Recorded February 2006 in Monterey, CA. Duration: 24:13)</p></blockquote>
<p>However, listen carefully, and you&#8217;ll hear her also make a case for polyamory, something <a href="http://maymay.net/blog/category/personal/romance-relationships/polyamory/" title="View past posts about 'Polyamory'">I&#8217;ve written about before</a>. Helen says:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=h_fisher&#038;flashEnabled=1"><p>However&hellip;these three brain systems, lust, romantic love, and attachment&hellip;aren&#8217;t always connected to each other. You can feel deep attachment to a long term partner, <em>while</em> you feel intense romantic love for somebody else, <em>while</em> you feel the sex drive for people unrelated to these other partners. In short, we&#8217;re capable of loving more than one person at a time.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s a good talk, and definitely worth a listen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/09/22/helen-fisher-discusses-love-proving-the-naturalness-of-polyamory/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Chicken Soup for the Social Soul</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/03/08/chicken-soup-for-the-social-soul/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/03/08/chicken-soup-for-the-social-soul/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maymay.net/blog/archives/2006/03/08/chicken-soup-for-the-social-soul/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good company, good conversation, and good chicken soup. What could be better?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s good to see friends. I feel like I&#8217;ve been swinging back towards a rather anti-social and work-focused period of time, what with the new job and all. Today I purchased training materials for yet more computer certifications (namely the CompTIA library of certifications) and began studying from them, which reinforces those feelings. (I&#8217;ve discovered the joy of cleaning the apartment to the sonuds of instructor-led self-paced video lessons. The scary thing is I&#8217;m being serious.)</p>
<p>Yet this evening I spent a wonderful, if short, dinner with a few friends. I had the chicken soup, as I&#8217;m still nursing myself back from the clutches of an evil cough and cold.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to remember how much of a resource they can be at times. It&#8217;s even harder to remember that the friends I (apparently) have that I didn&#8217;t really know I have are a resource too. That is to say that it&#8217;s hard for me to remember that my definition of friend is really other people&#8217;s definition of best friend or close confidant, and that this discrepency means I have more friends than I think I do.</p>
<p>Which is nice. Especially when these people offer great conversation and the ability for personal insight. (Aforementioned insight involves relationship queries that, for the time being, I do not feel like writing about.) I&#8217;m looking forward to our next pot luck party.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2006/03/08/chicken-soup-for-the-social-soul/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Personal Days</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/05/07/personal-days/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/05/07/personal-days/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 01:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Bipolar Disorder & Moods]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For more than a month now I have been, at least subjectively, <em>stable</em>. More than stable actually, <em>good</em>. The past couple of days have been entirely social, but it looks like the next week or two might be more focused on work. I like this balance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been feeling <em>good</em> for what seems like an abnormally long period of time. I still feel the mini-swings between lulls and bursts of activity, but dare I say that everyone experiences these things? Yes, I dare. Am I really approaching normal?</p>
<p>My father is understandably concerned. I am keeping a close eye on myself as well, and I&#8217;m doing my best not to let things swing too far in either direction. I&#8217;m also trying to do my best to maintain that <a href="http://maymay.blogspot.com/2005/04/busy-but-balanced-part-2.html" title="Near the end of this audio entry, I assert the importance of balance.">balance</a> between work, socializing, and personal time that I was so adamant about earlier.</p>
<h3>Being Social</h3>
<p>The past couple of days have swung heavily in the social direction. I suspect this has more to do with the fact that, all of a sudden, most of my friends and acquaintances are actually of college age and, not surprisingly, are graduating college this year. (Just my luck, right?) They all feel it too; everyone seems to be in this bittersweet melancholy mood, bracing for change.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spent a lot of <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/fantasmagoria/320920.html" title="Sara's take on the past couple of days.">time with Sara</a> lately, which, of course, meant profuse amounts of introspection and self-reflection and conversation about introspection and self-reflection. Sin City on Thursday night was a lot of fun, but more fun than the movie was the hand-holding and the various other forms of cuddling.</p>
<div class="aside" id="aside-feeling-polyamory">
<p><strong>Sidenote:</strong> I&#8217;m actually rather impressed with myself about something that I&#8217;m almost ashamed to feel impressed about. It&#8217;s as if this is supposed to be such an obvious thing, something small and common-place and not special, but for me it is. Namely, the ease with which I&#8217;m simply accepting whatever the relationship between Sara and I is&mdash;and it&#8217;s not a traditional relationship, neither in terms of friendship nor in terms of romance (nor in terms of play partners).</p>
<p>The funny thing about the situation is that it just sort of fell into my lap. Even stranger, however, is the fact that despite this very topic being very evident and not at all a back-burner issue, I feel like I have nothing to say about it except for &ldquo;Okay.&rdquo; Acceptance. <em>Happiness.</em> I don&#8217;t fully understand it (and that scares me because it means I may be misinterpreting things) but for the time being that is neither here nor there.</p>
<p>Is that the <em>feeling</em> of polyamory?</p>
</div>
<h4>End of the Year College Party</h4>
<p>Friday afternoon and early evening sported more conversation between Sara and I over breakfast (which, for me, was a cobb salad that is probably still in her suite&#8217;s refridgerator). Later that night, starting from about ten o&#8217;clock, <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/fantasmagoria/320427.html" title="Her LiveJournal invitation, viewable to specific persons only.">her suite hosted</a> an end-of-the-year party. Several things struck me about that party.</p>
<ul>
<li>I knew way more people than I would have thought. Not just knew <em>of</em> them but was, sort of, actually friends with many of them. A surprisingly high number, actually. Of all the things going on for me right now, realizing that I&#8217;m actually social will be the hardest to get used to. Here&#8217;s a list of folks off the top of my head:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/wellgull/" title="Jeff's LiveJournal.">Jeff</a> was there, and&mdash;get this&mdash;I actually first met him back when Juliana had invited me to be a naked extra in <cite>The Naked Show</cite> several years ago. We really connected when I started talking about my old office/tech support job, since that&#8217;s what he&#8217;s currently escaping.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/fantasmagoria/" title="Sara's LiveJournal.">Sara</a>, Sarah, <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/lovelypalms/" title="Sarah's LiveJournal.">Sarah</a>, and <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/schizomorality/" title="The other Sarah's LiveJournal.">Sarah</a> were all there. Yeah, that many Sarahs. One Sarah I had first met (extremely briefly) the night of Hamlet last week. Another was the one Sara and I took to see Sin City the day before. The other Sarah was one whom I had wanted to get to talk to for some time because she&#8217;s a new kind of techie I do not yet know well&mdash;I biomedical engineer, I think. Anyway, conversations with all four were nice.</li>
<li>Tall German guy who apparently knew more about me than I did about him. The party last night got that sorted out (we talked and whatnot) so now I can actually say that I know a little about <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/thiess/" title="Oliver's LiveJournal.">Oliver</a>.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/catfish23/" title="Emily's LiveJournal.">Emily</a>, another person who knew more about me than I did her. We joked about Judaism, parents (nothing too bad, <span lang="he">Aba ve Ima</span>), and alcohol. (Mental image: hyper Jewish girls. &#8216;Nuff said.)</li>
<li>I also got approached by another fine young man whom I vaguely knew but had not really spoken to before. We conversed about <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cv/" title="A Columbia University student organization and support center.">CV</a>, its future, and my suggestions for the organization.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/nappinowassi/" title="Melinda's LiveJournal">Melinda</a> attended, and so did Al, whom I know because Melinda got me to attend the Columbia Philosophy Forum discussions. It was when Al walked in that I felt that familiar &ldquo;It&#8217;s a small world&rdquo; feeling.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Parties are fun. Let me repeat that, and this time remember who&#8217;s blog you&#8217;re reading: parties are fun. Of course, I had a great time <em>because</em> I was with friends, but the point remains; I think I can finally relate to all those &ldquo;normal&rdquo; kids who really enjoyed partying. Sure, it wasn&#8217;t <em>exactly</em> my kind of party, but it was <em>still</em> fun.</li>
<li>I&#8217;m an incredible lightweight and for many reasons (not least of which is safety) I don&#8217;t drink alcohol. Nevertheless, I downed a small bottle and a half of Woodchuck (which is evidently not a bird) and still actually had a good time. For the record, <em>yes</em>, thoughts such as &ldquo;I&#8217;m buzzed; that means I need to be <em>extra</em> careful now&rdquo; were front-and-center in my head.</li>
</ul>
<h3>Back to Work&mdash;Sort&#8217;a</h3>
<p>Today I met with Jon about one of the side projects we&#8217;re working on together. I have a bunch of templates to design and build now, which is good because it gives the work aspect of my life something <em>fun</em> to latch on to and be excited about. I also exchanged emails with Dana about the <a href="http://www.nycwireless.net/" title="NYCwireless's home page.">NYCwireless</a> web site, though I&#8217;m not as clear about what needs to happen on that project.</p>
<p>Also, yesterday I met with Cal (the man who emailed me after seeing <a href="http://43things.com/people/view/maymay" title="My 43 Things profile.">me on 43 Things</a>) and he spoke a lot about business, as well as several other things. He seems to be a really remarkable person and I readily admit that I&#8217;m pleasantly surprised by that. I&#8217;ll be looking into a suggestion of his, namely to <a href="http://onesown.com/dba.html" title="Cal's helpful article with tips on setting this up for yourself.">get myself a &ldquo;Doing Business As&rdquo;</a> form for <a href="http://maymaymedia.com/" title="Professional, accessible web design, development, and consulting services.">Maymay Media</a>.</p>
<p>Tonight, I&#8217;m headed down to a bar (<em>a bar!</em>) to meet with a friend (one of the Sarahs). Before that, however, I&#8217;m going to hop into the shower because after Squash today (my uncle and I played 7 games; I won 3 of them!) I desperately need it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/05/07/personal-days/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Polyamory and Nonmonogamy Resources for Beginners and Newcomers</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/26/poly-resources-for-newcomers/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/26/poly-resources-for-newcomers/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 04:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The other day I ran into two separate occasions where I was asked about polyamory. Thus, this entry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A brief run-down of poly resources and other things I don&#8217;t want to forget about. The fact that I was asked about such resources twice recently makes this quite blogworthy, too. I should probably put this in a wiki, but since I haven&#8217;t got one running at the moment, this will have to do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll probably add stuff every so often as I find it and deem it helpful. Be aware that some of these resources are decidely local to New York City, since that&#8217;s where I am. If you live elsewhere, however, there are certain to be polyamory groups near you. (I know of quite a few around America and even in Europe, so feel free to ask me for the links if you&#8217;re interested.)</p>
<p>Sorted in order of (my) perceived quality and introductory importance so that a newcomer can simply run down the list, the polyamory resources are:</p>
<h3>Online Poly Resources and Sites on the Web</h3>
<dl>
<dt><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html">Polyamory? What, like, two girlfriends?</a></dt>
<dd>
<p><strong>The must-read intro</strong> about what is (and is not) polyamory. This is the single most immediately beneficial document I have ever read on the subject.</p>
<p>Additionally, xeromag.com has a whole bunch of other <em>extremely</em> well-written and informative guides to polyamory. They are each very helpful. I guarantee you these documents will help create an important foundation for talking about and dealing with polyamory and the concept of &ldquo;open&rdquo; (or perhaps &ldquo;not-quite-normal&rdquo;) relationship(s).</p>
<p><em>Some</em> of the other articles at <cite>xeromag</cite> are:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolymistakes.html" title="Never Do This: Common Poly Mistakes">Never Do This: Poly Mistakes</a>: How to screw up a poly relationship even if you are compassionate and well-intentioned.</p>
<p>This is the other <strong>must-read</strong> guide, written in negative form. It&#8217;s also got some great refridgerator-worthy items. It informs you (the easy way) about some of the pitfalls you might fall into when trying to build stable, happily non-monogamous relationships. (Reading this over recently made me sad&hellip;for <a href="/blog/archives/2005/02/10/waiting-for-the-date-to-change/?r-msg=My+ex-girlfriend+had+broken+some+of+these+poly+guidelines%3A#post-175" title="I've blogged all about my past relationship's demise.">obvious reasons</a>.)</p>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyguide.html" title="Poly Guide: Dos and Don'ts for Polyamorous Relationships">Dos and Don&#8217;ts for Poly Relationships</a>: A guide for poly relationships outlining the fundamental dos and don&#8217;ts that every poly relationship needs.
<p>When I get a printer, I intend to put some of these on my refridgerator because they&#8217;re useful for every-day relationships as well.</p>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolymyths.html" title="Common Myths About Polyamory">Poly Myths</a>: Debunking the myths about polyamory.
<p>This is a good place to point people when they start talking about why polyamory can&#8217;t ever work, and how the whole thing is just thinly-veiled promiscuity or sexual greediness. Believe me, you talk about this stuff enough and someone&#8217;s going to tell you these things. Of course, whether or not they read (and hear) it is up to them.</p>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvmonopoly.html" title="Polyamory? But I'm monogamous!">Poly Relationships for Monogamous People</a>: What it might mean if your partner just told you that they&#8217;re polyamorous.
<p>Obviously, this is a good article to point your spouse or partner to if you&#8217;re coming out as polyamorous. It&#8217;s written in that same question-and-answer format as all the other articles and has some very good advice for what could come next.</p>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvmonopartner.html" title="Things your Partner Wants You to Know">What Your Partner Wants You to Know</a>: &hellip;but might not be able to articulate.
<p><em>This article is not a substitute for your own words</em>, but it does do a good job of helping you formulate your thoughts and provides a good vocabulary from which to draw.</p>
</li>
</ul>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.polyamory.org/">alt.polyamory home page</a></dt>
<dd>
<p>The original polyamory resource, which grew out of the old alt.polyamory usenet newsgroup. The most immediately beneficial portion of this site is right at the top of the home page where <a href="http://www.faqs.org/faqs/polyamory/">the FAQs</a> are listed. These are long-standing documents which are frequently pointed to. They&#8217;re also very beneficial for newcomers and serve as helpful reminders for folks in polyamorous relationships. These are important to know.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://lovemore.com/faq/">Loving More <acronym title="Frequently Asked Questions">FAQ</acronym> And Terms</a></dt>
<dd>
<p>Polyamory has many names, because many people have moved towards the idea on their own and in their own way. There is no &ldquo;one true way&rdquo; to love. This is a online magazine published by one such group of people who term the concept &ldquo;Loving More&rdquo; (or LM). Their FAQs are helpful, too.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.poly-nyc.com/">Polyamorous-<acronym title="New York City">NYC</acronym></a></dt>
<dd>
<p>There is only one best way to learn about anything, and that is by doing. When you&#8217;re ready to interact with others who are polyamorous, this is a great place to go to meet people and learn more. Note that it is <em>not</em> a sex club, but rather an educational organization intended <q cite="http://www.poly-nyc.com/about.html">to nurture a prosperous polyamorous community in New York City.</q></p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://ejhs.org/volume5/polyoutline.html">How to Educate Your Therapist About Polyamory</a></dt>
<dd>
<p><cite>Published at the Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality</cite> in Volume 5 on April 16, 2002, this document is an outline of a talk given to the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality and includes some important notes for physchologists and therapists as well as their clients.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.tristatepoly.com/">Tristate Poly</a></dt>
<dd>
<p>This is an online organization similar to Poly-<acronym title="New York City">NYC</acronym> (above), though there is no &ldquo;membership&rdquo; per-se. I&#8217;ve found that this means that not everyone here will be truly polyamorous; I&#8217;ve met swingers there as well, and swinging has very little to do with polyamoroury. (Swingers can be polyamorous, and polyamorous people can be swingers, but there is a huge distinction between these two concepts and one should take care not to mix the two.) Nevertheless, it is good to know that this community exists and is somewhat active as well.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.polymatchmaker.com/">PolyMatchMaker</a></dt>
<dd>
<p>This is an online personals site devoted to helping polyamorous folk meet one another. Note that it is <em>not</em> a sex or porn site (very much <em>unlike</em> the <a href="http://friendfinder.com/" title="The place not to meet people online.">FriendFinder</a> network of adult personals sites); that means no profanity or sexually explicit material is allowed on PolyMatchMaker. This site is about meeting people, not finding random sexual encounters. Swingers should go elsewhere.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://spice.keenspace.com/">Spice!</a></dt>
<dd>
<p><cite>Spice!</cite> is an online comic strip that portrays the life of a polyamorous family with children. It&#8217;s the only comic I&#8217;ve ever found of its kind, and it&#8217;s not that bad either. The artwork is cute, and the jokes are decidely poly-centric. (Like <a href="http://spice.keenspace.com/d/20040508.html" title="Not how most people would react. (The third published strip from the beginning.)">this one</a>, and <a href="http://spice.keenspace.com/d/20040710.html" title="Flamewars are funny.">this one</a>, and <a href="http://spice.keenspace.com/d/20041016.html" title="We should all have such problems.">this one</a> for instance.)</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/polyamory/">LiveJournal Polyamory Community</a></dt>
<dd>
<p>This is a community of online diarists who write about their experiences and thoughts with and on polyamory. People post new entries frequently, and many members comment on others&#8217; entries offering support, advice, and feedback.</p>
</dd>
<dt><a href="http://www.subspace.cc/">Subspace</a></dt>
<dd>
<p><cite>Subspace</cite> is a web site for and by people who practice <em>both</em> <acronym title="Bondage &amp; Discipline, Dominance &amp; Submission, Sadism &amp; Masochism">BDSM</acronym> and polyamory. They have a collection of articles, links to other articles, a decently active message board, and even a poetry archive.</p>
</dd>
</dl>
<h3>Books and Other Printed Literature</h3>
<p>These are polyamorous resources published in books or other printed literature. Some cost money, some do not, but they are all helpful. (Some book listings borrowed from <a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolylinks.html" title="The Polyamory Resources page at Xeromag.com">Franklin Veaux&#8217;s poly links page</a>)</p>
<dl>
<dt><cite><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890159018/qid=1111895515/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-6997251-4684151?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">The Ethical Slut</a></cite> by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt</dt>
<dd>
<p><em>The</em> definitive guide to <q>infinite sexual possibilities</q> and polyamorous relationships. Includes an abundance of background information, supportive validation, and practical advice on how to deal with the realities of a poly relationship (yes, including jealousy).</p>
</dd>
<dt><cite><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1880789086/qid=1111896194/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-0366039-4071359?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Polyamory: The New Love Without Limits</a></cite> by Deborah M, Dr. Anapol</dt>
<dd>
<p>An excellent resource for polyamorous people. Focuses more on polyfidelity than on other kinds of polyamory, but another all-around recommended read.</p>
</dd>
<dt><cite><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805071369/qid=1111896328/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-0366039-4071359?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">The Myth of Monogamy</a></cite> by David P. Barash and Judith Eve Lipton</dt>
<dd>
<p>Written by a husband and wife team of behavioral scientists, this book explores non-monogamy from a behavioral, genetic, and moral standpoint. The book is not hostile to monogamy, but it makes the statement that in humans, a relationship model is a matter of both biology and choice. It argues that monogamy is not more inherently &ldquo;natural&rdquo; than non-monogamy.</p>
</dd>
</dl>
<h3>Movies and Video Material</h3>
<dl>
<dt><cite><a href="http://www.picturethis.ca/when_two.html" title="The movie's web site offers a brief synopsis.">When Two Won&#8217;t Do</a></cite> (directed by David Finch, circa 2002)</dt>
<dd>
<p>This real-life documentary made by a couple (and inspired by grappling with issues in their own relationship) takes you on a trip across America with them as they discover first-hand how people have &ldquo;open&rdquo; relationships.</p>
</dd>
</dl>
<p>If you know of a resource I&#8217;ve not listed here which helped you a great deal (especially when you were first learning about polyamory) then please drop me a line. (You can either comment on this entry or email me as meitar at a domain called maymay dot net.) Naturally, I also hope that this page might some day help others find what they need.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/26/poly-resources-for-newcomers/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Polyamory Will Save the World</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/21/polyamory-will-save-the-world/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/21/polyamory-will-save-the-world/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At this late hour, I haven&#8217;t the wits to add much value it, however this entry by Dave Pollard on the topic of polyamory is such a compelling read that I encourage you to drop what you&#8217;re doing and read it right now.
(Here is the first article in the series.)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this late hour, I haven&#8217;t the wits to add much value it, however <a href="http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2005/03/21.html#a1086" title="Against Love: Love Politics Revisited">this entry</a> by Dave Pollard on the topic of polyamory is such a compelling read that I encourage you to drop what you&#8217;re doing and read it <em>right now</em>.</p>
<p>(Here is the <a href="http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/stories/2004/04/26/lovePolitics.html" title="Love Politics: A Case Against Monogamy">first article</a> in the series.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/03/21/polyamory-will-save-the-world/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>My Relationship&#8217;s Hind-insight</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/15/my-relationships-hind-insight/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/15/my-relationships-hind-insight/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After the past few grueling days, Danica and I are able to share insights into ourselves and our relationship over a typical makeshift dinner. I think this is one of the many reasons we loved (and love&#8230;) each other so much.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danica came home for the night for the first time in half a week. She brought me two things. She called them Valentine&#8217;s Day gifts.</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>The first thing she gave me was a container of eggplant salad from a favorite restaurant of our&#8217;s in the area where we used to live. I had been talking about how I missed their eggplant salad after I purchased a container of the stuff from the local supermarket. I had remarked on how much better the dish from downtown was.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>The second gift she gave me, which I&#8217;m still not sure I&#8217;m keeping, is the <acronym title="Digital Video Disc">DVD</acronym> to <cite>Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind</cite>, a movie we had seen together some time ago with my brother one night. When we left the theatre that night I was the only one of the three of us who liked the movie. They both felt that its ending was weak. I remarked that I thought the ending fit the rest of the movie rather elegantly.</p>
<p>She bought it because, originally, she had wanted to take me to see it again at the <a href="http://www.twoboots.com/pioneer/" title="Probably Danica's favorite indy movie theatre. Also a pizzaria.">Pioneer Theatre</a> after she finished work today. She had said that it seemed fitting for our situation and that she thought she might appreciate it more this time around.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the movie was starting at the theatre a half hour before she finished work, so it was not possible to go see it there tonight. Instead, she called me on her lunch break and told me she&#8217;d get the <acronym title="Digital Video Disc">DVD</acronym> so we could watch it at home tonight.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>In the end we didn&#8217;t end up watching the movie. Instead, we just talked in the kitchen for a bit. While there, she asked if we could cuddle for a while before starting the movie. (That&#8217;s when I knew there would be no movie.) I accepted and we went to lay down in bed, where the conversation continued.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m writing this as she&#8217;s sleeping in the middle of the bed. I suppose I&#8217;ll have to move her slightly if I want to sleep there tonight. In the morning when she returned from Randy&#8217;s today she told me she had only gotten about three hours of sleep, and had been thinking of me all through the night. Since she had to work today, I&#8217;m not surprised that she&#8217;s so tired. I hope she sleeps well.</p>
<p>During our conversation, we each shared some of the insights we had had recently regarding our relationship and ourselves during the time we spent together. What follows is an attempt to capture as many of these insights as I can at this late hour. Note that my eyes are heavy and my fingers slow, and I may not be completely accurate in my recollection as a result of this. (No worries, I&#8217;ll edit&mdash;and timestamp the edits&mdash;later.)</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>During the course of our relationship, one of the things I kept telling her about her other relationships was that I would feel far more at ease if one of these other relationships was a deeply committed one. That is, rather than finding other guys to have &ldquo;non-relationships&rdquo; I would have preferred that she find someone she loved and had a long-lasting (concurrent) relationship with that person.</p>
<p>She was always puzzled by this, and despite my many attempts to explain in many different ways, I always fell short of a specific answer. This frustrated me to no end, as I was clearly unable to reach her by reason of not having a definitive awareness of <em>exactly</em> why I felt this way. To her, a relationship that invovled &ldquo;just sex and nothing more&rdquo; should have been extremely easy for me to accept because it was &ldquo;meaningless [and] not important&rdquo; to her.</p>
<p>Today I finally realized&mdash;and finally communicated to her articulately&mdash;that the reason I was so much more troubled by all her so-called flings was because, to me, these actions were proof-positive that she was incapable of committing to a partner (<em>any</em> partner(s)) at this time.</p>
<p>In other words, if she had found another partner to lovingly commit to, I would have gleaned the hope I wanted for our own relationship. I would have seen that, yes, it was possible for her <em>to be committed</em> and to be <em>considerate</em> and respectful to a partner. Even if that partner wasn&#8217;t me at that time, it would have shown that it was at least <em>possible</em> and thus I would have believed that it was possible between the two of us. We would just have to keep working at it until we got it right.</p>
<p>Similarly, all her frivolous and impulsive decision making was providing proof of the very opposite of this and further reinforcing my fears that she would not be able to maintain a long-term relationship with me. <strong>Every time she told me that some new or ongoing relationship was insignificant, it told me only one thing: that our relationship was beyond her capacity right now</strong>. (On a somewhat more philosophical level, I think this insight is one of the best explanations I have of why the whole monogamy versus polyamory debate is off the mark.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little saddened that it&#8217;s taken these horrificly painful events to finally enable me to articulate this one thought clearly. I liked to think of myself as more perceptive than that. Nevertheless, thanks to these experiences, it is a lesson learned that I will not ever forget.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Danica has been writing a lot lately, just like I have been. She writes songs though, songs and poems. For the past two days, but especially earlier tonight, she shared many of the songs and snippets of lyrics she&#8217;s been jotting down.</p>
<p>One of the things that struck me (and now that I think about it, something that probably struck her too guessing by the time when she paused and said &ldquo;Wow&hellip;yeah&hellip;&rdquo; at one of her angrier songs) was how extreme and varied the emotional weight and message of each song was. In a few cases, the same day&#8217;s lyrics had both angry and longing tones, both of which were directed at the same event or person.</p>
<p>The &ldquo;Wow&hellip;yeah&hellip;&rdquo; song was actually the oldest one she shared. She wrote it on January 1<sup>st</sup>, 2005. The start of the <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/01/09/new-year-new-space/" title="We were fighting for some time. This is just one example.">new year was rough</a> on us both; <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/01/02/holiday-moodiness/" title="I needed to vent, but I did so publicly and it hurt Danica.">we fought</a> quite a bit over the course of the holiday season. She told me before she read it that it was directed at me. Unfortunately, I can&#8217;t recall a specific lyric right now (and I actually don&#8217;t want to write them here because I never asked her permission to republish her work).</p>
<p>Afterwards, she set it down on the table in front of us and looked at me. Her expression said &ldquo;I&#8217;m sorry,&rdquo; but her lips curled in on themselves into an inward frown. Then she said, &ldquo;Yeah, communication would have been&hellip;&rdquo; and trailed off. I finished her thought for her: &ldquo;&hellip;helpful.&rdquo; She nodded slowly.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I have long known that I am not especially fond of anyone who does not actively go after what they want or what they know to be good for them, including myself. I have never encountered a single good thing that has ever come out of passively watching things go by and not once engaging myself actively. This is not just related to relationships, but is a globally relevant observation on life in general: <strong>you can&#8217;t sit out of your life</strong>. It&#8217;s your game. You <em>must</em> play in it.</p>
<p>The reason I was so upset with myself when Danica and I had sex the <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/02/13/relapse-unnecessary-turmoil/" title="Having sex with Danica made things very hard that night.">other night</a> was because I did <em>exactly</em> what I try so hard to avoid all the time: passively letting things happen to me instead of actively embracing or rejecting them. Again, the point isn&#8217;t to accept or reject things, the point is to <em>make choices</em>. When I gave in to her sexual advances that night, when I let my body get the better of my mind, I was taking myself to the sidelines and letting the pieces fall where they may.</p>
<p>When I do that, the pieces <em>never</em> fall exactly where I want, and I always have to pick at least a few of them up. In every case where I&#8217;ve done that, I could have arranged said pieces better if I didn&#8217;t let them fall on their own in the first place. And I <em>knew</em> that as I was letting myself go.</p>
<p>I felt like I had just let myself float in the wind like a stray leaf, not unlike the very description I used for Danica&#8217;s lack of awareness only a few days prior. To have committed this act I myself is embarassing, to say the least. I hold myself to very high standards, much higher than I hold most other people. I have to do that because if I don&#8217;t I&#8217;ll be just like every other average person out there, and I can&#8217;t let myself believe that I&#8217;m average.</p>
<p>When I told this to Danica she started crying a little. I can understand why, too: she was sure, at the time, that what she was doing was helpful. And if I were her, I might have thought the same thing.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>All in all, today was great. I didn&#8217;t get as much done as I would have liked, but that means I have a strong motivation to do them tomorrow. The point is, things are getting better. They&#8217;re even getting better at an incredibly fast pace.</p>
<p>As I lay on the bed with Danica holding me tightly, telling me how we will be great together in the future, I felt two distinctly conflicting emotions. I was sad and I was happy. <em>But I was okay.</em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/15/my-relationships-hind-insight/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Dreary Valentine&#8217;s Day</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/14/dreary-valentines-day/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/14/dreary-valentines-day/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I spoke with my mother and brother yesterday. I finally managed to get sleep last night. Danica is beginning to accept the situation, and we've been keeping things light-hearted. Things are getting better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My nights are getting better. I managed to rest for nearly seven and a half hours last night (this morning) from approximately twelve-midnight to seven-thirty in the morning. This marks the continuation of a trend that I&#8217;m happy to see growing; more sleep each night. The <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/02/11/polyamory-support-channel-on-irc/">first night</a> I didn&#8217;t sleep at all, the <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/02/12/my-first-night-alone/">second night</a> I woke up way before dawn, and the <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2005/02/13/relapse-unnecessary-turmoil/">third night</a> I did better but only by one hour.</p>
<p>As a result of all this, I&#8217;ve been tired constantly and was starting to feel like I&#8217;ve been walking through some kind of nightmare that I couldn&#8217;t wake up from. Ironically, all I really wanted much of the time is to be able to sleep. Sleep has been more akin to temporary death than a period of rejuvination lately. Luckily, things have been improving quickly.</p>
<p>I spent much of the afternoon yesterday at my mother&#8217;s house. She&#8217;s been emailing me extremely frequently, asking how I&#8217;m doing and what the state of things are. (She&#8217;s been reading my blog because I set her up with an auto-opening newsreader and subscribed her to my site&#8217;s feed.) I&#8217;m not sure she&#8217;s figured out how to post comments on these entries yet.</p>
<p>I also had to go over to my mother&#8217;s to pick up a suitcase full of clothes belonging to myself and to Danica. Danica had washed these over a week ago and had said she&#8217;d pick them up the next day. So now that I was running out of socks, and my mother&#8217;s hired housecleaner was coming over the next day, I found myself needing to go get that suitcase.</p>
<p>While I was there, my mother cooked a salmon dish for me (one of our favorite&#8217;s that I had actually taught her some years back) and I ate a few bites before feeling full. This clearly distressed her because she made several comments about how I have to take better care of myself and how my stomach was obviously shrinking. I spent about two hours there doing nothing but semi-argue with her about my current state of affairs, both emotional an financial.</p>
<p>My mother has this very troubling tendency to want to help me very much and end up not being helpful at all. In fact, some of the things she said were pretty hurtful. The conversation (more like the rant) was heavily laden with age-old comments and stories and reasoning that I found completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.</p>
<p>One of the most hurtful things she said, despite the fact that she tried to say it very gently, was regarding polyamory. She started by asking me if I saw a pattern in the way most (the past two) of my relationships had ended. (For the record, I&#8217;ve only ever had three serious relationships in my life, so 2 out of 3 is thus considered &ldquo;most&rdquo; for her.) I knew exactly where this was going, so I pointed out, again, that neither of these breakups happened because of a lifestyle choice and that thinking that they had was totally missing the point.</p>
<p>Unconvinced, she asked me why, then, does this seem to be the recurring theme. That was easy: because it&#8217;s the single most exploitable excuse with which to end a relationship and the easiest way to push loved ones away. <strong>Non-committed partners will seek other, new partners. Being monogamous won&#8217;t stop that.</strong></p>
<p>Neither of my now-ex-girlfriends were fully committed to me. Both of them <em>told me</em> that they simply have more living to do before they are ready to do that. <em>That&#8217;s</em> why we broke up. The fact that I was committed to Danica, more so than most husbands are to their wives, makes very little practical difference in the matter when that committment isn&#8217;t reciprocated. And committment is one of the single-most important relationship characteristics, <em>be it polyamorous or not</em>.</p>
<p>Thankfully, it was clearly evident that she was only trying to help me so it was much easier than it might have otherwise been to simply agree with her (emphatically) about the things she said which I agreed with and simply ignore (for the most part) the things I didn&#8217;t agree with. I actually left on a very positive note. I told her what an excellent mother she&#8217;s been (and it&#8217;s true, she&#8217;s <em>amazing</em>), how much I appreciated all the support, and that I was very thankful that she was trying to help. And all this while I was still exhausted; more reasons to be proud of myself.</p>
<p>When I got home, I spent a few hours online hanging about #polyamory. I wanted to give my brother a call, but wanted to wait until after nine o&#8217;clock so as not to incur the ridiculous cell phone charges normally associated with the calls. When I called him, I had forgotten most of the details I wanted to discuss, but we had a great conversation despite that.</p>
<p>I almost cried at some points, relaying some of the information about what was going on. We spoke a lot about our parents, too. We all miss Shir; he&#8217;s awesome. I asked him whether or not he had a valentine and he seemed confused. So I told him not to make a big deal out of it, just to go ask a friend (that is of the female persuasion, in his case) to be his valentine. I told him it would make her day, and it&#8217;d make him feel good.</p>
<p>Of course, I was thinking about Danica. However, the last thing I want to do right now is send mixed signals to her so I&#8217;m going to refrain from those sorts of actions for the time beind despite my burning desire to do something like that for her.</p>
<p>After we spoke, I started getting ready for bed. It was about 10:30 PM, and I knew that Danica had just ended work. I was expecting her to be home sometime at around 11:00 or 11:15 that night.</p>
<p>I got ready for bed, and then started doing dishes. She wasn&#8217;t home by eleven o&#8217;clock, so I kept doing dishes while telling myself I&#8217;d go to bed after &ldquo;this next dish was clean.&rdquo; I kept doing dish after dish until I had cleaned them all. By this time it was 11:30, and she still wasn&#8217;t home. I figured she had probably gone to stay at Randy&#8217;s again, even though she told me when she left today that she couldn&#8217;t stay there anymore.</p>
<p>That was okay. I don&#8217;t know why I was waiting up for her. I was dead tired, barely able to stand straight. I kept thinking that I needn&#8217;t worry about this anymore, that I had formally absolved myself of this responsibility the other day. It shouldn&#8217;t matter where she was anymore, not to me anyway.</p>
<p>But this was emotional. I still expected that she would be home and was dissappointed when, by 11:45, she wasn&#8217;t. I took the flowers she had given me the other day and cut the rubber bands from the stems, cleaned their vase, and re-set them nicely on the window sill.</p>
<p>Finally, I climbed into bed at exactly midnight. I thought I heard something at the door once, so I got up to see if it was Danica arriving late. It wasn&#8217;t, though, so I went back to bed. I didn&#8217;t wake up once through the night. And, as I stated at the beginning of this entry, I managed to stay asleep until 7:30 this morning.</p>
<p>I spent most of today online, talking. In the morning (around 8:30 AM), Danica arrived home but she didn&#8217;t stay long as she had to work at 11:00 AM today. We talked a bit and were finally able to keep things mostly light-hearted. It was a welcome reprieve from the emotional battering we had both been taking over the past several days.</p>
<p>I made a doctor&#8217;s appointment which I had been meaning to do for a while, I started organizing a bit of my workspace again, and my father emailed me some ideas for my new web site. That was exciting to see.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still really tired, but I actually felt somewhat rested today. That&#8217;s a first in about a week. Now, I&#8217;m headed to the shower, then to run some quick errands, and then&hellip;then we&#8217;ll see. We&#8217;ll see&hellip;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/14/dreary-valentines-day/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Phase 3: Coping with the Break Up</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/phase-3-coping-with-the-break-up/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/phase-3-coping-with-the-break-up/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While reflecting on the day's breakup with Danica, I still managed to fix up my workspace quite a bit. Thanks for everyone's support.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First things first: <strong>thank you</strong> to those who left supportive comments. I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;ll be fine, given the time I need. I don&#8217;t know how long that might be, though. Here&#8217;s hoping for a quick rebound.</p>
<p>After the early morning&#8217;s events, I had fallen asleep on the bed in my clothes. My father woke me up little bit later. He had arrived to the house and was by my bed. We had scheduled this morning as a time to put up shelves and do some much-needed house construction. We completed just about all of that by around four o&#8217;clock in the afternoon.</p>
<p>Danica was not home. She had left, after briefly speaking to my father. I think the poor girl is very unstable. I empathize, but I am through being a security blanket for her. It is too far beyond the point at which I need to take care of myself already.</p>
<p>Arguably, I should have broken up with her long ago, at either the first or second time something major like this has happened. But love is a funny thing. As someone told me on <acronym title="Internet Relay Chat; like Instant Messaging for groups">IRC</acronym> the other night, it&#8217;s hard not to worry about someone if they keep telling you &ldquo;I need you,&rdquo; and &ldquo;I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;d do without you&rdquo; all the time.</p>
<p>One thing my father told me was, no matter what happens with Danica in the future, that if we get back together, there must be a monogamous commitment to each other; no more open relationships. While I can understand why he said this, and while I&#8217;m certain that no matter what I say certain people will believe that the presence of a non-monogamous factor in our relationship is what led to our breakup, I believe that this understanding is greatly missing the point.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I haven&#8217;t sufficient experience to back up my claim that <strong>I do not have a problem with my partner having other partners</strong>. This is because in each case where my girlfriends sought other partners, they did so in a frivolous manner without taking into account my feelings. As a result, in each case where my girlfriends sought other partners, <strong>I have been hurt by their lack of integrity, comittment, and decency</strong>.</p>
<p>&ldquo;Commitment?&rdquo; you might be asking. &ldquo;How could there be commitment to you when she was actively seeking out another mate?&rdquo; The short answer is that there is no reason to believe that seeking out another mate has any negative implications for an existing relationship. The long answer is too long to go into here.</p>
<p><ins datetime="2005-02-12T08:33-05:00">
<p>Note: Here&#8217;s a helpful way of looking at it that I shared with my father during our discussion. Having a relationship &ldquo;on the side&rdquo; is never acceptable because it is entirely exclusive of all other relationships. All relationships, primary or not, must be involved with each other. That doesn&#8217;t mean I expected to have sex with Danica&#8217;s other partners, but it does mean that I expected to be introduced to them, to talk with them, and to <em>actively accept them</em> into my relationship with her <em>before</em> she began the affair.</p>
<p>Furthermore, any other partner she may have had <em>must</em> have been informed about me and my role from the very beginning and must <em>fully accept</em> that. If they do not accept me and my role then they are effectively rejecting her as well. Or at least, that&#8217;s what should happen in a healthy polyamorous relationship. Which, of course, this was not.</p>
<p></ins></p>
<p>However, while I wish the short answer could be applied here (and to my previous girlfriends&#8217; actions), the simple truth is that in every one of my experiences, my girlfriends were seeking out other partners because <strong>they were not happy in our relationship</strong>. That, as it is said, is a no-no.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really know why Danica was not happy in this relationship. I have tried talking about that with her many, many times. I&#8217;ve been unable to procure anything but an unstable cycling of  defensive justifications and outright confusion. God knows I&#8217;ve tried. If she was not happy with me, then I am glad we have broken up for both our sakes.</p>
<p>In hindsight, I am rather disappointed in myself for being so naive and so hopelessly lovestruck. For all my enlightenment and emotional perceptiveness, I was simply unable to act upon the one thing I feared most: Danica is a serial monogamist. Randy is merely a more suitable lover for whatever she thinks she needs right now, and I am not as suitable. She may have been physically with me, but she was <em>already looking</em> for her next boyfriend a long time ago.</p>
<p>I remember a conversation I had with her only a few months into our relationship where I expressed the concern that I feared our break up would be inevitable because she would push me away. More than a year, countless broken words, and increasingly unnerving contradictions later, my premonition was proved correct.</p>
<p>Why could I not do something about it back then and save myself the heartache? Love does that to people, though, so at least I&#8217;m in good company.</p>
<p>Finally, let me say this: I am proud of me. I was heartbroken, hurt beyond any prior experience (and like nothing I could possibly imagine), and literally exhausted, yet (with the help of my father) I still managed to get two shelves up in my workspace in the living room.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/phase-3-coping-with-the-break-up/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Polyamory Support Channel on IRC</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/polyamory-support-channel-on-irc/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/polyamory-support-channel-on-irc/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Danica goes to see her date for the second night in a row I ask her to come home at a reasonable hour. Instead, she stays over at his house. I, understandably, am pissed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danica woke me up today like a puppy might have. It was late (almost 2:30 PM), so in preparation for a meeting at five o&#8217;clock I made myself breakfast and prepared to go. We didn&#8217;t speak much.</p>
<p>After the meeting, at around 6:10 PM, I called home to see if she were here or out with Randy. There was no answer, so I figured she was out with Randy. I gritted my teeth and headed for the subway.</p>
<p>When I got home, I noticed that the lights in our apartment were on. Sure enough, she was home. She was <em>preparing</em> to go out to see Randy. Anger ensued, which mostly consisted of my hitting the punching bag she bought for herself while she did her best to ignore it. (I think I seriously sprained my left thumb&#8217;s joint. It hurts a lot.) I then went online to try and find an online polyamory support group of one sort or another. I found a lot of old resources but nothing promising.</p>
<p>Finally I turned to her and apologized for my childish behavior earlier (the punching and the being overtly angry). I was still upset, though. She said she understood and I promptly interjected that no, she did not. She relented and continued to prepare for her date. Despite what she might say, I sincerely (and seriously) doubt she would have an easy time of it if the roles were reversed.</p>
<p>Thankfully, by now, I had found #polyamory on Undernet. Just a plain old <acronym title="Internet Relay Chat; like Instant Messaging for groups">IRC</acronym> channel, but filled with folks who (though sometimes asleep at the keyboard) live and talk about polyamory. I had just begun speaking with a very kind lady about my situation when Danica was ready to go out.</p>
<p>I told her that I had found an <acronym title="Internet Relay Chat; like Instant Messaging for groups">IRC</acronym> polyamory support channel (though I realize now that&#8217;s not exactly what it is) and she said, &ldquo;That&#8217;s great.&rdquo; Sort of made me feel like she thinks I&#8217;m seeking &ldquo;help&rdquo; for something. Whatever. I told her, &ldquo;Please come home at a reasonable time,&rdquo; and she responded &ldquo;I&#8217;ll try.&rdquo; Which is both absurd and inconsiderate, but whatever. I said again, &ldquo;Please come home at a reasonable time.&rdquo;</p>
<p>When she had gone, I went back to <acronym title="Internet Relay Chat; like Instant Messaging for groups">IRC</acronym> and spoke with the supportive woman in #polyamory until nearly 12 midnight. Danica had not called once. Nevertheless, I was feeling a lot better about everything. I started preparing myself some dinner.</p>
<p>At just about 1 o&#8217;clock in the marning, the phone rang. I picked it up and said hello. It was Danica; she said hello. There was silence. I asked her what was up and how she was. She said fine and tired. I asked when she was coming home. She said she wanted to stay over. She said she fell asleep on the sofabed again. She made some lame excuse about how it&#8217;s cold outside and she was too tired.</p>
<p>I chuckled. Was the girl serious? So I asked again, &ldquo;When are you coming home?&rdquo; She said, &ldquo;Well, I&#8217;ll leave at about 6 in the morning and&mdash;&rdquo; I cut her off and asked when she&#8217;d be coming home <em>tonight</em>. When she didn&#8217;t answer, I asked her if she really thought it was okay with me that she stays over there tonight.</p>
<p>When she still didn&#8217;t answer, I said, &ldquo;No, of course it&#8217;s not.&rdquo; Still, all I got was silence from her. So I asked quite plainly, &ldquo;Are you going to stay there tonight?&rdquo; Finally, a response: &ldquo;Yeah.&rdquo; I <em>almost</em> had to laugh. &ldquo;Fine,&rdquo; I said. &ldquo;Goodnight.&rdquo; And with that, I hung up the phone.</p>
<p>Such childish and utterly disrespectful behavior is the best way to ensure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I won&#8217;t take her word for very much in the future. Is that what she wants? Like it or not, that&#8217;s what she&#8217;s going to get if she doesn&#8217;t change her attitude.</p>
<p>That sounds like I&#8217;m angry. I am. I&#8217;m pretty hurt. I feel like I&#8217;m being treated like a doormat. I&#8217;m not a doormat. I won&#8217;t let myself be treated like one this time. And, interestingly, that resolution makes me feel surprisingly good.</p>
<p>Important points I forgot to mention:</p>
<ul>
<li>When she called, she made sure to mention that she had &ldquo;observed all your rules,&rdquo; by which she means she didn&#8217;t do anything except some cuddling and kissing. This particular phrasing of having &ldquo;rules needing to be observed&rdquo; was not mine. Thus the question, &ldquo;Who are you rebelling against, Danica?&rdquo;</li>
<li>Yesterday, Danica assured me she would not be out tonight. She would go out in the afternoon and be home before late. Before she left, when I brought this up, I was told that she had &ldquo;changed her mind.&rdquo; This resulted in my saying, &ldquo;Oh, I see. And when will you actually do what you first say you will?&rdquo; angrily. Thanks to tonight, I can safely rest my case.</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/11/polyamory-support-channel-on-irc/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Waiting for the Date to Change</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/10/waiting-for-the-date-to-change/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/10/waiting-for-the-date-to-change/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thoughts in my head as Danica stays out very late on a formal date with a new acquaintence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h3>2:16 AM</h3>
<p>Hmm. Nearly 2:20 in the morning. Danica&#8217;s on a date&hellip;. She called me over two hours ago. Wanted to &ldquo;stay over&rdquo; at the guy&#8217;s house. Um&hellip;duh. <em>No.</em> It&#8217;s late. Come home. So I tried calling back a half hour ago but, as usual, no response. Ninety percent of the time she just doesn&#8217;t realize her phone is ringing.</p>
<p>Ninety percent are good chances. Right?</p>
<h3>2:42 AM</h3>
<p>Danica just called. She said she fell asleep on the sofabed. Hmm&hellip;. I told her to come home; take a taxi, I&#8217;d pay. She said okay. I asked her to call me back when she&#8217;s in the taxi.</p>
<h3>3:21 AM</h3>
<p>No call since over a half hour ago. Is she not in the taxi yet? Grr.</p>
<h3>3:33 AM</h3>
<p>Had to call, it&#8217;s been almost an hour. Thankfully, I got an answer. First words I heard were, &ldquo;Yeah, yeah, we&#8217;re getting a cab now.&rdquo; Uh-huh&hellip;.</p>
<p>Though there was no so-called official timeline for tonight, the established consensus (yes, I asked before she left) was that she&#8217;d meet him at 7:30 downtown, would sit and chat with him for about an hour to let him in on the fact that I exist, and would take it from there. If things went well, it was movieokie and a good-night hug. If they didn&#8217;t go well, it would be no movieokie but other events were undefined.</p>
<p>Obviously, that is not what happened. Movieokie, by the way, would have ended at 11. Perhaps I should have asked for definitions for the not-going-well bit other than just naively assumed it most likely meant a phone call to me and coming home?</p>
<h3>3:42 AM</h3>
<p>She&#8217;s in-taxi. Called for our address. Chuckled. We&#8217;ve been living here for more than a month&hellip;.</p>
<h3>4:03 AM</h3>
<p>She&#8217;s almost downstairs. She called to tell me where she was and that I should probably bring some money to pay the cabbie.</p>
<h3>4:22 AM</h3>
<p>She&#8217;s blowing her nose in the kitchen. She told me a few details about the night. Kinda faught a bit. I&#8217;m obviously pissed that she&#8217;s home at this hour. Pissed even more that without active intervention on my part I would have awoken to an empty house tomorrow, I&#8217;m almost sure of it. (I have a history about being correct when predicting Danica&#8217;s behavior.)</p>
<p>She did some kissing and some cuddling. The guy didn&#8217;t know how to react to the news of my existence. She says they just stared at eachother for an hour and a half &ldquo;Umm&rdquo;-ing.</p>
<p>Whatever. I&#8217;m not happy. Make the bad feelings go away.</p>
<h3>5:16 AM</h3>
<p>She&#8217;s showering now, and my eyes are getting heavy. Feel better now, though. Not great, but okay. I could never really formulate what, exactly, I felt so bad about. I wasn&#8217;t sure if I was angry, frustrated, hurt, or what. Still don&#8217;t know. Don&#8217;t really care.</p>
<p>She said she&#8217;d see him tomorrow because over the weekend, he has a ski trip. I don&#8217;t know how likely that is, but I didn&#8217;t like the sound of it either way. I have a meeting tomorrow with someone regarding some pro-bono <acronym title="PHP Hypertext Preprocessor; an HTML-embedded scripting language">PHP</acronym> work I&#8217;m doing. I need sleep for that. Guess I was a little upset that this night was the night that this happened too.</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t really mad, I don&#8217;t think. It&#8217;s a pretty expected reaction. People say it&#8217;ll go away with time and good experiences. I hope so.</p>
<h3>Supplementary (Meta-Entry) Notes</h3>
<p>In the spirit of a wiki-blog, rather than post new entries as the night wears on (or the day encroaches), I&#8217;ll just keep adding to this one, along with a timestamp. That&#8217;ll be an interesting experiment, too.</p>
<h3>Totally Off-Topic Note @ 5:45 AM</h3>
<p>Apple Mac <acronym title="Operating System">OS</acronym> X 10.3.8 is available. Comes right on the heels of 10 (that&#8217;s <em>ten</em>) security updates for various Windows components. Internet must be busy with a load of updates tonight.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2005/02/10/waiting-for-the-date-to-change/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Address Book Full of Empty Web Pages</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/24/address-book-full-of-empty-web-pages/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/24/address-book-full-of-empty-web-pages/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Depression & Melancholy]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Safari is still my main browser on the Mac. It has this feature which integrates it into Apple&#8217;s Address Book and provides a drop down list of all your contacts whom you have specified Web pages for.
Well, there are very few people in my address book without web pages of some kind. Most of them [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/">Safari</a> is still my main browser on the Mac. It has this feature which integrates it into Apple&#8217;s <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/addressbook/">Address Book</a> and provides a drop down list of all your contacts whom you have specified Web pages for.</p>
<p>Well, there are very few people in my address book without web pages of some kind. Most of them are old diaries or LiveJournals. As a result, there is a long list of long-gone friends who still write in their blogs. I spent the better half of this hour randomly jumping from one contact&#8217;s page to another, just to see what they looked like.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/cookie201/">My ex-girlfriend</a> hasn&#8217;t written on her LiveJournal for at least 6 months. <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/danalili/">Another girl I knew</a> who used to go to college with her has, but sporadically. A friend of mine who I never talk to anymore (<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/jude28/">she became a mother</a>) hasn&#8217;t written in over a year. Yet another friend, <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/satellite21/">a fellow bipolar whom I used to speak to</a> for hours at a time over the phone late at night hasn&#8217;t either. Most people haven&#8217;t. Some folks have decided to keep their journals <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/slut_goddess/">&ldquo;friends only&rdquo;</a> which effectively means I can&#8217;t see them. Strange since, <a href="http://www.porcelain-mask.net/">at one point in time</a>, I was considered a friend.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just a night of old memories. There are only <a href="http://ctkeiser.blogspot.com/">a handful</a> of people in my address book whom <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/pixie4now/">I still talk to</a>.</p>
<h3>Bedroom Full of Restless Nights</h3>
<p>Earlier tonight, Danica and I were cuddling. I kissed her, and she seemed like she was getting into it. Before long, however, she just told me to stop for some reason which she mumbled under her breath and I couldn&#8217;t discern. I couldn&#8217;t get her to repeat it either, so I left her be. I&#8217;m probably getting tired now, but I can&#8217;t bring myself to climb into bed with her and fall asleep. Restless, I guess. No, actually, I feel rejected.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how long its been since we&#8217;ve been truly, closely intimate. The last time we tried was more than a week ago on Monday night. I had planned to go out to Columbia University to see now-ancient acquaintences. She had initiated sex not long before I needed to get ready to go. By the time I should have been out of the house, it was over because things turned sour for some inexplicable reason and she had curtly asked me to leave her alone. I felt so hurt that I got extremely angry, and we fought for a while that night.</p>
<p>She has become increasingly enamored with a male co-worker, a shy and dorky musician who&#8217;s a freshman at <acronym title="New York University">NYU</acronym>. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s even been a week, but it seems as if she can&#8217;t stop talking about him. This isn&#8217;t new. There have been at least 3 others, over the course of our relationship, whom she has talked to with such fervor and frequency.</p>
<p>I feel more like the gay friend than the bi boyfriend these days. While there are short moments every other day or so of closeness, when I feel like her <em>partner</em> again, much of the time I feel as though I&#8217;m back to being a roommate, which is the term she had used to describe me to a guy she met via Friendster. That pissed me off back then, too. Though my moods may be making me biased, right now I&#8217;m having trouble remembering the last time I recieved an unsolicited &ldquo;I love you&rdquo; from her. I feel like the nights these days do not belong to me and her anymore. They belong to her and her fantasies about her infatuations.</p>
<p>The other day she made clear to me for the first time that she is <em>most</em> interested in having a relationship with another person together with <em>us</em>. That is, not just a relationship involving herself and another guy, but have that relationship involve me as well in a triad of sorts. That was something I was happy to hear about becuase of the implications of involvement and of consideration that dynamic necessitates. I don&#8217;t know how realistic a situation like that really is, but I do believe her when she says that&#8217;s her ideal and I know it would be a situation I would be infinitely more comfortable with than a situation where she has an external relationship which doesn&#8217;t involve me at all.</p>
<p>However, I have this gnawing concern that what she really means to do is meet someone else who she really likes and, regardless of how I feel about it, get involved with that guy. Like I said, I do believe she&#8217;d like me to like him too, and for him to like me so that there is mutually shared affection. In a way, I feel like the girl who&#8217;s boyfriend says, &ldquo;Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if we met another girl and you two liked each other and the three of us could all be together?&rdquo; Well, yes, I suppose it would, but my fear is that should she actually find someone she likes and the situation is one where a love connection can be made (they live nearby, there&#8217;s no age gap, there&#8217;s mutul attraction&mdash;these are the things that have been missing from the previous men she&#8217;s become infatuated with)&hellip;that if a love connection could be made, consideration for me and my feelings will be easily disregarded in favor of whimsical and lusty impulse.</p>
<p>During a moment of anger (or sadness? Frustration?) Danica asked me today what I have to offer her in this relationship. It was the fourth time I can recall such a direct question assessing my worth. My answer: &ldquo;I do not need to sell myself to you. You will be with me if you want to be, and you will not&mdash;rather, you <em>should not</em>&mdash;be with me if you don&#8217;t want to. That&#8217;s not for me to decide. It&#8217;s you&#8217;re choice. It&#8217;s always been your choice. I love you, and I want to be with you.&rdquo;</p>
<p>I guess in short my fear can be summed up in the following sentences. I am afraid that she will enter into a relationship that is not for the benefit of <strong>everyone</strong>. At Saints&#8217; Alp Teahouse earlier, Danica finished reading one of the polyamory links I wrote about the other day. She pointed out this passage to me:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html"><p>Another good way not to make a poly relationship work is to browbeat your partner, or coerce your partner into accepting it. Poly relationships don&#8217;t work if one of the people involved only grudgingly accepts it; it has to be for the benefit of everyone.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am thinking about printing that out and gluing it to the wall.</p>
<p>I am also considering making this entry private, viewable only by me. I want to tell Danica all these things, but I am afraid that she will not hear them as merely concerns, but as some form of &ldquo;sword of Damacles&rdquo; and unfair judgements. There is probably a point where too much honesty and directness is not a good thing&mdash;and I am notoriously direct.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s winter now. It&#8217;s getting cold out there. Even though I&#8217;ve closed the window and no matter how deeply I bury myself in the covers, right now I&#8217;m still cold in here, too.</p>
<p>I guess if you can read this, then the entry is public.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/24/address-book-full-of-empty-web-pages/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Orkut Conversation on the Ethics of Slut-dom</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/21/orkut-conversation-on-the-ethics-of-slut-dom/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/21/orkut-conversation-on-the-ethics-of-slut-dom/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently, I have been part of a very interesting conversation in the Ethical Sluts community on Orkut. After some attempts at parsing the whole thing into a blog entry, I&#8217;ve decided it would be better to simply paste the posts here in order to maintain the conversational nature of the thread. Besides, it&#8217;s easier for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently, I have been part of a very interesting conversation in the Ethical Sluts community on <a href="http://www.orkut.com/" title="Yet another social networking site.">Orkut</a>. After some attempts at parsing the whole thing into a blog entry, I&#8217;ve decided it would be better to simply paste the posts here in order to maintain the conversational nature of the thread. Besides, it&#8217;s easier for me to do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in green, and William (the person I had the conversation with) is in blue.</p>
<p><span id="more-133"></span></p>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<blockquote><p>I imagine that, inevitably, in the polyamory lifestyle, there will be sexual relationships that you choose not to continue, not necessarily out of a falling out - perhaps you find people you admire and love more or find more attractive, or any number of other reasons.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That sounds an awful lot like a starvation economy to me. &#8220;Love more?&#8221; &#8220;Find more attractive?&#8221; In what way? Physical, I assume? I thought ethical slutdom and polyamory was not &#8220;just about the sex.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that there&#8217;s something <em>wrong</em> with &#8220;sex for sex, where looks matter most,&#8221; but it is not at all surprising that in today&#8217;s &#8220;modern societies&#8221; something like this is frowned upon by most people &#8212; even by many polyamorous people.</p>
<p>It is precisely the teaching of polyamory that just because you find someone new there is no need to break, stop, or otherwise suspend an existing relationship.</p>
<p>In my humble opinion, it is more ethical to stop a sexual relationship because of a falling out (a change in the nature of the relationship) than because you&#8217;ve found someone &#8220;better.&#8221; The former is inevitable, the latter is closed-minded, ungenerous, and decidely serially-polyamorous.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid blue;">
<p>William:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Find more attractive?&#8221; In what way? Physical, I assume?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Nope, in any way.</p>
<blockquote><p>It is precisely the teaching of polyamory that just because you find someone new there is no need to break, stop, or otherwise suspend an existing relationship.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately time is not a limitless resource for mortals and choices are made. All of the polyamorous people I know, it does seem like it&#8217;s mostly about the sex - they all have a main spouse. For example, they don&#8217;t live or take vacations with their other parters, though they might go to something like a movie or a music performance. Some of them &#8216;check&#8217; with each other before having sex with another person, which I find rather odd, as I would not want to be in a relationship where I had to screen all my friends or check in with my parner. I wonder how common these traits are in polyamory or ethical slutdom.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<blockquote><p>Unfortunately time is not a limitless resource for mortals and choices are made. All of the polyamorous people I know, it does seem like it&#8217;s mostly about the sex - they all have a main spouse.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Agreed, time is not limitless. But if it&#8217;s mostly about the sex for you or the people you&#8217;re talking about then we&#8217;re discussing different things. The fact that there may be a primary relationship around which secondaries circle is beside the point.</p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html">the link</a> John Marquis provided me the other day: <strong>Swingers focus on recreational sex, though friendships and deeper bonds may develop. <em>With polyamory, deep relationships are the focus,</em> though the sex is often fun.</strong></p>
<p>I request that we define &#8220;polyamorous&#8221; and &#8220;ethical slutdom&#8221; in this conversation. Specifically, define &#8220;amorous.&#8221; Dictionaries are unfortunately vague for this purpose.</p>
<blockquote><p>Some of them &#8216;check&#8217; with each other before having sex with another person, which I find rather odd, as I would not want to be in a relationship where I had to screen all my friends or check in with my parner.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You miss the point of a loving emotional connection. The single most important necessity to maintain a deep relationship, <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2004/11/20/a-note-on-the-similarity-of-monogamy-and-polyamory/">regardless of whether that relationship is monogamous or not</a>, is complete <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2004/11/19/swinging-runtime-emotions/3/">transparency with your partner</a>.</p>
<p>Transparency means, among other things, that you keep your partner informed and involved in the decisions you make. And this goes beyong the givens of safe sex practices.</p>
<blockquote><p>I wonder how common these traits are in polyamory or ethical slutdom.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Again, you need to define your terms &#8212; at least for the purposes of this conversation. I could not feel very emotionally committed to someone who would not consider my feelings when choosing additional sexual partners.</p>
<p>Furthermore, you seem to me to have a decidely negative reaction to the thought that you you need to talk to your partner before you act on a lustful impulse. The language you use makes it sound like you percieve it as an infringement on your freedom. (In particular, the use of the verb &#8220;to screen&#8221; makes this clear.)</p>
<p>I am curious why you feel this way. What&#8217;s bad about talking with your partner about your other partners? Do you feel like it would hinder your ability to get with people? If so, how would it?</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid blue;">
<p>William:</p>
<blockquote><p>But if it&#8217;s mostly about the sex for you or the people you&#8217;re talking about then we&#8217;re discussing different things.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The reason it seems mostly about the sex is because the sex is the main commonality with their main relationship; the other things that other partners share in their lives pales in comparison to what the main relationships shares.</p>
<blockquote><p>What&#8217;s bad about talking with your partner about your other partners?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Probably nothing, screening is another matter.</p>
<blockquote><p>that you keep your partner informed and involved in the decisions you make</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe a transparent relationship necessarily has to include spouses being involved in every decision another makes.</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you feel like it would hinder your ability to get with people? If so, how would it?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If had to consider whether or not my spouse would approve of people I meet as friends, I think it would hinder my ability to make friends.</p>
<blockquote><p>The language you use makes it sound like you percieve it as an infringement on your freedom.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Quite correct. I would consider the relationship restrictive if the spouse had to approve all of my friends. I don&#8217;t expect my spouse to like all of my friends or want to spend time with them, but I do not spend all of my time with my spouse, so for the times she is not present, I don&#8217;t see why she should have a say in who I spend that time with, outside of a concern for physical or emotional damage.</p>
<blockquote><p>Again, you need to define your terms</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I used <em>polyamory or ethical</em> slutdom because you made a distinction in your previous post, so I figured I should include both in my question. Feel free to define them.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<blockquote><p><q>What&#8217;s bad about talking with your partner about your other partners?</q></p>
<p><strong>Probably nothing, screening is another matter.</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Screening is a word with some unspoken baggage. Screening is, in fact, nothing more than a conversation, and so the reason to use the word &#8220;screening&#8221; as opposed to some other is to convey the unspoken, in this case negative, baggage.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don&#8217;t believe a transparent relationship necessarily has to include spouses being involved in every decision another makes.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Me neither. I was careful to avoid use of the word &#8220;every&#8221; in my previous posts. The idea is not to become some kind of invalid, unable to make choices on one&#8217;s own, but rather to consider one&#8217;s partners&#8217; emotions <em>before</em> you <em>do</em> make a choice that you think (or know) would affect them in some emotional context. Often times, the best way to do this is to actually ask a question like &#8220;How do you feel about x&#8221;?</p>
<p>This action of asking when you are not sure about the answer from your partner, it should be noted, is <em>not</em> screening. Rather, some emotion that is stirred inside of you makes you feel that you are &#8220;screening&#8221;/being made to screen when this happens. That&#8217;s an extremely important distinction to make.</p>
<blockquote><p>If had to consider whether or not my spouse would approve of people I meet as friends, I think it would hinder my ability to make friends.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t this imply that you are making friends your spouse does not want you to keep as friends? And doesn&#8217;t that deserve some discussion from the two of you?</p>
<p>More to the point of this thread, if you replace &#8220;friends&#8221; in the above excerpt with &#8220;lovers,&#8221; doesn&#8217;t that <em>definitely</em> deserve some discussion??</p>
<blockquote><p>The language you use makes it sound like you percieve it as an infringement on your freedom.</p>
<p><strong>Quite correct. <span style="color:red;">I am not aware of any other way &#8220;if you want to be my spouse, then you can be friends with this certain person&#8221; would be perceived.</span></strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>(You edited.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad I interpreted that correctly. However, no one ever made mention of any sort of ultimatum such as the one you describe. Again, the point is not to say &#8220;Do this and not this or else we can&#8217;t be together,&#8221; but rather to say, &#8220;If you do y or if you do not do z, it will make me feel like x.&#8221;</p>
<p>The perception of the ultimatum, of the conditional action, is <em>your interpretation</em> of something rather than the reality of a situation. (Unless, of course, your spouse <em>did</em> speak those words exactly, in which case I think s/he needs to find more effective means of communicating her/his feelings.) This is another important distinction to make, and one I&#8217;ve only recently learned myself.</p>
<p>In the past, I have given my partner an ultimatum such as the one you imply, and it has only back-fired. I&#8217;ve since learned that such attempts at controlling other people are futile at best, and horribly destructive to a relationship at worst. I&#8217;ve never again made such a demand.</p>
<p>Another distinction is in order here: this is not to say that a hurtful action by a lover won&#8217;t induce me to end a relationship. It very well might if I judge that to be in my best interest. More often then not, and after I give myself some time for any hot-headedness to cool off, I find that I still want to be with that person, and that ending the relationship is not what I want.</p>
<p>In those cases, there is a need to express hurt and pain, and hopefully one of two things will happen. Either 1) my partner won&#8217;t hurt me again or 2) I won&#8217;t be hurt by the same action from my partner.</p>
<p>Polyamorous relationships, as I understand them, are most often derailed by something that falls under category 2, above. That is, they <em>needn&#8217;t be derailed</em>, and that&#8217;s my whole point here.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid blue;">
<p>William:</p>
<blockquote><p>Screening is, in fact, nothing more than a conversation, and so the reason to use the word &#8220;screening&#8221; as opposed to some other is to convey the unspoken, in this case negative, baggage.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Screening is more than a conversation, I do not understand what is so perplexing about this word. Screening is, in this context :</p>
<blockquote><p>Me neither. I was careful to avoid use of the word &#8220;every&#8221; in my previous posts.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Your lack of specifics was noticed. I had thought that we were specifically talking about discussing other parners/friends, so when you had said &#8216;that you keep your partner informed and involved in the decisions you make&#8217;, since you didn&#8217;t specify and who you choose as friends or sexual partners is important, I assumed you meant all of those decisions.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<blockquote><p>Screening is more than a conversation, I do not understand what is so perplexing about this word to you. Screening is :</p>
<p>I do not approve of your friend, choose me or your spouse.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>1) I&#8217;m not perplexed.</p>
<p>2) Please don&#8217;t get angry at me. I&#8217;m not angry at you. I&#8217;m merely discussing something with you &#8212; because I&#8217;m interested in what you have to say and in your replies to what I have to say.</p>
<p>3) &#8220;I do not approve of your friend, choose me or your spouse,&#8221; is part of a conversation. The fact that it&#8217;s an ultimatum is one thing to note (which I&#8217;ve talked about above), but screening in no way implied an ultimatum. It may have <em>to you</em>, but clearly did not to me. I&#8217;ve used the word in a variety of contexts, and never did I or the people I spoke with use it to imply an ultimatum. Hence my persistence in getting to the root of your semantics; you&#8217;re using it in a way I&#8217;ve never encountered before.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid blue;">
<p>William:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;If you do y or if you do not do z, it will make me feel like x.&#8221;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To me, there seems to be an ultimatum here as I would not want to do things that made my spouse feel bad and I would expect (and hope) that if I kept doing them, my spouse would leave. You bring up a good point though, I have not heard a literal ultimatum spelled out by any of my polyamorous friends in these matters, and I assumed, perhaps falsely, that when said &#8220;it will make me feel bad&#8221;, they didn&#8217;t go ahead and do it. This also gets into that making the first spouse feel bad, and it seems to me someone will always left feeling bad if there isn&#8217;t complete agreement, and that does not sound like an enjoyable relationship to me.</p>
<p>I am not angry, however I find it quite strange if you have never experienced screening without an ultimatum behind it; in my experience, it is usually how it is used, like airport screening.. if you have a bomb, you aren&#8217;t getting on the plane, screening phone calls - if so and so calls I will pick it up, but not for anyone else. I can&#8217;t think of many examples of common usages of screening where the act screening doesn&#8217;t cause some decision to be made.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<blockquote><p>it seems to me someone will always left feeling bad if there isn&#8217;t complete agreement, and that does not sound like an enjoyable relationship to me.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hmm. Perhaps that&#8217;s the basis for some interesting differences between certain polyamorous folk. What, then, would comprise an enjoyable relationship for you?</p>
<p>As I said earlier, I could not be emotionally committed to any great extent to anyone who did not consider my feelings. Obviously, if they aren&#8217;t enjoying the relationship because of that, I doubt there would be any relationship.</p>
<p>That said, I <em>have</em> found it difficult to find a partner who would do this, but &#8212; and here&#8217;s the important catch &#8212; I think that&#8217;s largely because of my own concerns, regardless of how they were introduced to me.</p>
<p>In more specific terms, my current partner has hurt me greatly several times by specifically doing things that I informed her would hurt me. The most common example of this was calling a potential sex-buddy. (Note the absence of an ultimatum.) The reason it hurt was because she <em>knew</em> it would hurt me, but did it anyway. That seriously degrades my trust in her willingness to help me through some of the issues I need to work through in order to feel secure enough to know that she called this sex-buddy.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re still together, however, and after I  re-clarified my hurt on the matter, she has not done anything that would severely hurt me again. (Category 1 of my two potential outcomes of communication, above.)</p>
<p>However, it should also be noted that she <em>has</em> called this potential sex-buddy again, but I was not particularly hurt by it. (Category 2 of potential outcomes, also above.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s that give-and-take process that builds trust while at the same time allowing both partners to remain free to make their own choices and, ultimately, <em>be polyamorous, be an ethical slut.</em></p>
<p>But it is <strong>only through the delay (and <em>not sacrifice</em>) of self-gratifying actions</strong> can this trust be built, at least in my view.</p>
<blockquote><p>I would not want to do things that made my spouse feel bad and I would expect (and hope) that if I kept doing them, my spouse would leave.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is the delay I was talking about above. The same things that hurt your partner now may not hurt your partner ten days, or 4 weeks, or 6 months from now. (This I know from experience, though sometimes it does take longer.)</p>
<p>So the choice of whether to keep doing the things that you know hurt your partner or not is yours and yours alone (if you&#8217;re not given an ultimatum, anyway, which I hope you&#8217;re not).</p>
<p>Yes, by not doing the things you know will hurt your partner, you are effectively giving up some &#8220;percieved freedom,&#8221; namely, the ability to do what you will when you will at your whim. That&#8217;s not easy to give up! But it should not be something you give up <em>forever</em>, only so long as it will hurt your partner, and only then if you calculate your desire to be with said partner as greater than your immediate desire to act upon your impulses.</p>
<p>Regardless of your final choice, I believe that to remain &#8220;ethical,&#8221; the choice you make must be one you inform your partner about before you act on it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only a sophisticated mind who can control oneself in this regard. Those are the minds which I find attractive.</p>
<blockquote><p>I can&#8217;t think of many examples of common usages of screening where the act screening doesn&#8217;t cause some decision to be made.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The fact that some decision is made based on the information gathered from a screening process does not dictate an ultimatum. That is, the resulting decision need not always be black-and-white. For instance, I have screened calls for purposes other than deciding whether or not to pick up. Likewise, I would consider some sort of gray-area compromise between lovers a valid answer to a &#8220;if you do y, it will make me feel x&#8221; situation.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid blue;">
<p>William:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think that&#8217;s largely because of my own concerns, regardless of how they were introduced to me.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The concerns of not having a lover/spouse willingly do something that will hurt you or the concerns of wanting your spouse to have meaningful sexual relationships, or something else? If it&#8217;s the first, I don&#8217;t think you can be blamed at all. If it&#8217;s the second, I&#8217;m not sure.</p>
</div>
<div style="margin:1em;padding:1em;border:2px solid green;">
<p>Meitar:</p>
<p>Nono, the first of course! All my &#8220;rational&#8221; concerns, if I can call them that, revolve around my partner potentially hurting me despite the fact the she knows her actions are hurting me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid that she either miscalculates her desire for a whimsical action so that she does it, thereby hurting me, or that she honestly does not care enough for me to put off some whimsical desire for the &#8220;greater&#8221; purpose of not hurting me.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s in quotes because, of course, it&#8217;s from my own perspective. Naturally, my partner might feel differently. My hope, however, is that she does not.</p>
<p>The &#8220;irrational&#8221; ones are all concerns too, but I recognize that they have nothing to do with her and are thus all of my own making (and unmaking, hopefully).</p>
<p>My ideal world, I think I&#8217;ve said before (though possibly not here), is one where she gets literally everything she wants. But to get to an ideal, <em>I need her support</em>. At first, that support was sorely lacking.</p>
<p>Initially I felt bad about that need. That is, thought to myself, &#8220;I am a failure for needing such a hand-holding at times.&#8221; I&#8217;ve since stopped thinking that, both because it&#8217;s unhelpful and because (I now believe) it&#8217;s untrue. I may still need such support at times, but that&#8217;s no failing of mine. Rather, the willingnes to step forward with her support is a great strength.</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/21/orkut-conversation-on-the-ethics-of-slut-dom/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>A Note on the Similarity of Monogamy and Polyamory</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/20/a-note-on-the-similarity-of-monogamy-and-polyamory/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/20/a-note-on-the-similarity-of-monogamy-and-polyamory/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2004 05:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I appreciate the many comments that were left on my last entry touching on this subject, I don&#8217;t think I was completely understood.
First of all, I have no problem whatsoever with the concepts of polyamory or swinging (or, for the record, monogamy). What I personally don&#8217;t like is having intimate sexual contact with someone [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I appreciate the <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2004/11/19/swinging-runtime-emotions/#comments">many comments</a> that were left on my last entry touching on this subject, I don&#8217;t think I was completely understood.</p>
<p>First of all, I have no problem whatsoever with the concepts of polyamory or swinging (or, for the record, monogamy). What I personally don&#8217;t like is having intimate sexual contact with someone whom I am not close to. It is a nice fantasy, but I don&#8217;t want that as a reality. I just don&#8217;t find that appealing. Others do, and I have no problem with that fact nor do I pass judgement on it either.</p>
<p>For each of the &ldquo;lifestyles&rdquo; of monogamy, polyamory, and swinging the opportunity for casual sexual encounters exists. There is no uncommon thread among them in this regard. Likewise, in each one there exists the opportunity for intensely close, deeply emotional connections, as well as emotionally intimate sexual experiences in a variety of relationship contexts. Again, there is no difference between the three lifestyles here.</p>
<p>The distinction between the three is <em>merely one of math</em>. Theoretically, monogomists have one relationship of a particular context at a time, polyamorists have more than one, and swingers come to a choice on the math based on their current relationship.</p>
<p>The point here is that the skills necessary to be a successful monogomist, polyamorist, and swinger are <strong>identical</strong>. These skills are a suite of emotional intelligences including self-awareness, compassion, generosity, love, patience, conflict-resolution, the ability to delay self-gratification, and communication skills. <strong>A good monogamist will be a good polyamorist. A good swinger will be a good monogamist.</strong> Again, there is <em>no uncommon thread</em> between monogamy, polyamory, or swinging in this regard.</p>
<p>The implicit reciprocal point made from the above paragraph is that <em>un</em>successful monogamists are <em>un</em>successful polyamorists, and so too any other relation. Unsuccessful monogamists are often called <dfn>serial monogamists</dfn>. Serial monogamists lack the skills necessary to maintain a relationship&mdash;any relationship&mdash;for any great length of time, and they are thus bad candidates for polyamory.</p>
<p>In short, serial monogamists are opaque to their partners; they do not keep their partners informed about their concerns, feelings, or other partners. They do not let their partners be involved in the making of choices which affect their lives. Good polyamorists, <em>and good monogamists or swingers</em> are completely transparent to their lovers, their playmates, their friends, and their crushes. That&#8217;s what makes them good at love, <em>however they choose to express it.</em></p>
<p>I am a good monogamist. Not perfect, but very good. That&#8217;s the basis for my confidence in myself when/if (probably &ldquo;when&rdquo;) I will attempt a polyamorous relationship. I am not put off by the idea at all. Rather, I welcome it. It&#8217;s not something I need; I&#8217;d be just fine in whatever relationship I end up with as long as that relationship is a mutually loving and beneficial relationship for me and my partner(s). In order for a relationship to succeed at all&mdash;regardless of whether it is a monogamous or polyamorous one (or some other kind)&mdash;it must be healthy, it must be transparent.</p>
<p>I hope, though I admit I&#8217;m not really sure, that this is a good enough explanation of my feelings on the matter.</p>
<p>(As an aside, the realization that I could be happy in a completely monogamous relationship was one that came to me while I was with Danica. One of the things she said to me on the phone before we even met was, &ldquo;In a good relationship, you don&#8217;t feel limited.&rdquo; That stuck with me &#8217;til now, and will probably never leave me. I hope it never does, anyway.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/20/a-note-on-the-similarity-of-monogamy-and-polyamory/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Swinging Runtime Emotions</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/swinging-runtime-emotions/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/swinging-runtime-emotions/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Romance & Relationships]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been sick for the past few days with a really bad sore throat. I thought I was getting better, but this morning I woke up and started coughing up phlegm like a mother seagull feeding her chicks. (Yes, a lovely image, I know. Try going back to your breakfast now.)
Feeling Dismissed
Last night Danica and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been sick for the past few days with a really bad sore throat. I thought I was getting better, but this morning I woke up and started coughing up phlegm like a mother seagull feeding her chicks. (Yes, a lovely image, I know. Try going back to <em>your</em> breakfast now.)</p>
<h3>Feeling Dismissed</h3>
<p>Last night Danica and I fought again. I almost left to go sleep at my father&#8217;s or my mother&#8217;s, but Danica begged me not to so I stayed. It started when Danica read this (a page she has not yet finished and which I first asked her to read a couple of days ago):</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html" title="Excerpt from an online polyamory resource I wanted Danica to read."><p>No. Cheating is breaking the rules. If you aren&#8217;t breaking the rules of your relationship, you are not cheating, by definition.</p>
<p>The rules need not be explicit; even breaking the tacit rules of a relationship is cheating. If you do anything you cannot feel comfortable telling your mate about, or if you do anything which you know would make your mate unhappy if he or she knew about it, you are cheating, plain and simple.</p>
<p>Polyamory is a completely different way to define your relationship. Polyamory is an acknowledgment of the simple fact that relationships do not come in &#8220;one size fits all.&#8221; In a poly relationship&#8211;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It was the second sentence in the second paragraph that specifically started it. (<q cite="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html">&hellip;or if you do anythin which you know would make your mate unhappy if he or she knew about it&hellip;.</q>) Danica didn&#8217;t agree with it, made her opinion known, and when I tried to explain why it was absolutely correct as far as I was concerned she acquired this&hellip;<em>dismissive</em> tone of voice that really, really made me angry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/swinging-runtime-emotions/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>You have 2 minutes.</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/you-have-2-minutes/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/you-have-2-minutes/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Anger & Rage]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Bipolar Disorder & Moods]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At a bakery at closing time, I'm given two minutes to grab a cupcake by a male employee. He gives Danica four minutes. I am angry. More thoughts on polyamory and feelings about my relationship.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at my mother&#8217;s house today. I went to go <a href="http://www.maymay.net/blog/archives/2004/11/15/x11-forwarding-and-vnc/" title="Some of my experiences experimenting with Virtual Network Computing">set up a <acronym title="Virtual Network Computing">VNC</acronym> server</a> and install a new anti-virus program on my brother&#8217;s home computer, which he access remotely from his college dorm room.</p>
<p>(Actually, I should really get around to writing an article about anti-virus services and programs. That&#8217;s another one of those cases where people usually end up paying for things they don&#8217;t have to.)</p>
<p>Anyway, I came home, made myself some pasta, and while I was eating it (I have yet to finish a bowl), Danica wanted to go out to get cupcakes. It was 11:10, and the bakery closes at 11:30, so we needed to hop to it. We were out the door a couple minutes later.</p>
<p>At the bakery, a male employee was in front of the door, holding a &ldquo;Sorry, we&#8217;re closed!&rdquo; sign. A few customers were still picking out pastries inside, though. I looked at him and said, &ldquo;Just two minutes?&rdquo; He looked back at me, glanced over at Danica, and said, &ldquo;All right, go ahead.&rdquo;</p>
<p>I thanked him, stepped inside, and then he said to me, &ldquo;You have two minutes,&rdquo; and when Danica stepped in behind me he told her, smiling, &ldquo;You have four minutes.&rdquo;</p>
<h3>GRRRRROWL!!!</h3>
<p>It&#8217;s not as if this is the first time something like this has happened to me. The most blatant example of people&#8217;s general pigheadedness in this regard I&#8217;ve encountered was by a doorman who wouldn&#8217;t open a door for me when I was carrying four (that&#8217;s 4, as in two more than as many hands I have) <em>hot, large-sized</em> Starbuck&#8217;s coffee cups, several dozen napkins, and some sugar packs. I was struggling with the door for at least 30 seconds when a woman walked by, for whom he opened the door, and I managed to slip into the building.</p>
<p>You know, I may not be much to look at, but that&#8217;s no reason to treat me any differently than someone who is. And you know what else? I&#8217;ve come to terms with the fact that it <em>will</em> mean I am treated differently, across the board, throughout the rest of my life. That&#8217;s just the fucked-up, cruel laws of nature and society that happen to make a lot of sense. Sucks for me, but good for the species, I suppose.</p>
<h3>Sigh.</h3>
<p>The really bothersome thing about the whole thing, and the reason it even stuck with me long enough for me to write this entry, is that I&#8217;m not <em>usually</em> affected by this&mdash;at all. Sure, it happens all the time, but I don&#8217;t usually get pissed about it. I&#8217;m pissed about it because I&#8217;m not in a secure place regarding my social and sexual abilities right now. This encounter was one of the things that reminded me about that today. The others were some of the things Danica has said about her male co-workers. (She just got a new job at a Barnes and Noble café.)</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not <em>usually</em> upset by any of these things. It&#8217;s not as if she&#8217;s pulling her co-workers into the warehouse and screwing them, either. But apparently I&#8217;m insecure enough <em>in this relationship</em> to have that image pop into my head. That&#8217;s not good. That&#8217;s not the kind of person I want to be. That&#8217;s not the kind of relationship I want to have.</p>
<p>I <em>want</em> to be able to listen to her talk about the cute guys she works with and not feel my heart sink. I <em>want</em> to listen to her talk about the customers who wink at her when she smiles and not feel jealous of them. I even <em>want</em> her to meet someone she likes and wants to get intimate with and <em>be happy for them</em>. (Yes, really.)</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not going to happen right now. I&#8217;ve felt too hurt from Danica in the past on this subject to make it a realistic expectation for me. I spent a good deal of time fighting off feelings of failure and guilt about that, too. Well, it&#8217;s not my fault. I have some fears and some irrational concerns. I&#8217;ve been working through those. Mostly, however, I&#8217;ve not got enough trust in her committment to me or our relationship to feel like it would be &ldquo;no big deal&rdquo; to have her having casual sexual relationships with other people.</p>
<p>That sort of thing is nothing to take lightly. There is nothing &ldquo;casual&rdquo; about a casual other relationship to your partner. And that makes a whole lot of natural sense, too. Sucks for her, but good for the species, I guess.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/19/you-have-2-minutes/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Late Night Thoughts on Polyamory</title>
		<link>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/16/late-night-thoughts-on-polyamory/</link>
		<comments>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/16/late-night-thoughts-on-polyamory/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Polyamory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This and this have made my day.
And yes, the pages were so validating, helpful, and important to me that I&#8217;ve added the new Polyamory category to my blog.
Expect to read more of my thoughts, experiences, and fears on polyamory in the future.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html" title="Incredibly crucial advice on polyamorous relationships.">This</a> and <a href="http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolymistakes.html" title="The most effective ways to destroy a polyamorous relationship, or an attempt at one.">this</a> have made my day.</p>
<p>And yes, the pages were so validating, helpful, and important to me that I&#8217;ve added the new Polyamory category to my blog.</p>
<p>Expect to read more of my thoughts, experiences, and fears on polyamory in the future.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://maymay.net/blog/2004/11/16/late-night-thoughts-on-polyamory/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
